137 Years of Glass, 2 Years of Change: How Stölzle Lausitz Turns a Factory into an E-Commerce Brand #LTM168

For me, control in E commerce doesn't mean necessarily selling everything yourself.

Sure, if you sell yourself, it's really easy to take control, but you also lose reach.

So in our case, it means choosing the right partners.

Let's talk marketplace.

The marketplace podcast with ingrid lommer and vana r.

Hello and welcome back to let's Talk Marketplace.

I'm Ingrid, a little hoarse today, so excuse me, but I'm trying my best, even though it's cold season in Germany.

But I didn't want to miss today's episode because we are talking about, I would say, one of the most unforgiving products that you can possibly sell online.

And that's glassware.

That's great.

Yeah.

And I'm Valerie.

Hi, everyone.

Ingrid.

Unforgiving is a strong word, I would say.

But to be very honest, glass seems a bit that way.

And.

I mean, come on, fragile, sometimes heavy and not that expensive piece.

And it has to survive parcel hubs and, you know, people bringing it to the front door who don't have a lot of time and don't get paid enough money to do that nicely.

So, yeah, I think it's pretty tough, I would say.

Yeah.

And then to be honest, then comes also the real question.

Who decides where your glass shows up online?

That's another one.

Yes.

So what price sold by whom?

And maybe right next to a copy.

And yeah.

Well, we are quite excited to talk today about glassware and.

Yeah, like wine glasses, water glasses, and how to sell them profitable online on Marketplaces.

I think that's the main question today.

Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

I already discussed parts of this with our guest today because I had the pleasure of meeting her at the Mexico stage last September on a panel where we're talking about scaling cross borders.

The panel was really interesting, but the slot was near enough to get the whole story.

And so I'm really happy that she's back with us today.

She runs digital and E commerce at one of Germany's oldest glass makers.

And she came here.

Yeah.

Right from Paris, which gives her a very different lens on a very traditional business, I would say.

Yeah.

So welcome Bettina Proft from Stolzer Lausitz.

Welcome to the show.

Happy to have you here.

Yeah.

First of all, I want to thank you, Valerie and Ingrid.

I'm so happy to be part of this podcast.

And yeah, to meet you again after our DMEX Go stage talk.

And yeah, maybe I shortly introduce myself.

So I'm Bettina Proft.

I am E Commerce director at Stolzen Lausitz, coming from the fashion Industry but I think you also have a little bit of time to talk about that and yeah, and I'm the E commerce specialist now at Schwiss Elousitz and I let's say I make things change.

It's a good challenge and yeah, maybe I can share some of that today.

Yeah, I'm really excited about that and I think you have a lot to share, Bettina.

So what would you say?

Do you do, what do you do best in the industry?

What I do best is change things and give the structures.

I spent, I spent a couple, couple of years also helping French startups or pure players also platforms to go international and very often I've been like the first non French, non French person that worked for a company.

So yeah, I had to face many, many changes and so yeah, that's, I think that's something.

Change management and being patient also adapt to given structures but making them change step by step, that's one thing.

Yeah, you can, let's say you can.

Expect from you.

From me, exactly.

Hire me for.

Yeah, exactly.

That's it.

So how long are now working for?

Now it's.

Not so long, almost two years but it feels like at least six I think.

Yeah, we have like already done so, so many things in E commerce.

Like yeah, working.

We are working on the online shop that changed a lot in the last two years.

Also marketplaces going international, working really closely with marketing.

So yeah, it feels more than two years already.

It sounds like that.

Okay, but first of all we have like the last third question for you.

We would love to hear a fun fact about yourself, Bettina.

Yeah, I think what's really funny because when I got the job offer I did not know is that yeah, I've now lived in France since 17 years but yeah, I got a job offer for a company that yeah comes from my, from my home region Lusatia.

So that's, that's quite funny.

That's really, that's really quite interesting and yeah Bettina, I'm really looking forward to go much deeper with you then we, that you could also, then you could also go on stage with Ingrid and Yeah but first we will have a very short break.

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Okay, right, so that was that then I guess we can dive right into it.

Valerie, I think that is something that you should lead on because we've got a great brand here and of course I have already been talking to Bettina too for a while.

Yeah.

So.

Well actually I would love to first talk talk with you about the brand Staelser Lausit because I think that, I mean we know as Germans rough what you sell, but maybe you can give us a bit of a deep dive.

What category are you selling?

What kind of products, what price points?

Where do you sell the product?

Yeah,.

Yeah, yeah.

So as you already mentioned, we say glassware.

Glassware that we produce and.

Yeah.

What kind of glasses?

Glasses, it's very often pulled stem glasses.

So wine glasses, but also whiskey glass, champagne glasses.

Now, now very attractive for the, for the rest of the year, the end of the year and for new year and also juice glasses.

We are also present in the non alcoholic category and we are known for for our high quality.

But they got quite good price point because our glasses are machine made.

But they are really close to a mouse blown quality.

Very light, seamless because of the stem that you pull directly out of the bowl.

Yeah.

So that's our USP and where do we sell?

To be honest, quiet.

Everywhere.

Yeah.

Or our distribution channels.

Oh, we have many distribution channels.

We sell with wholesale.

We have retail partners, online retail partners.

You can find us in, in many hospitality businesses, hotels, restaurants and all over the world.

I still remember once a friend of mine, he was traveling in Hong Kong and he sent me a photo from his hotel and showed me, hey, that's one of your glasses.

And yeah, so our glasses.

Yeah, you really can find some quite everywhere in the world.

It's less, let's say the glasses.

Yes.

What's the challenge today for Stolzl is to make the brand known among the private household.

If you're talking to a professional from hospitality, nearly everybody knows us.

We are really among the three big players in Europe.

But the private households we have still to work a little bit to make the brand known amongst them.

But I see a big potential for that.

And that's actually also Your main responsibility with your online sales channel.

Right,.

Exactly.

So where did you start it and where are you now?

Where did we start?

So let's say when I joined the company here, marketplaces online shop were already active let's say but maybe not optimized.

So I did a whole remake relaunch of the online shop and there will be a second one quite soon.

So that's one of the things I work on nearly on a daily basis.

As you know you always can optimize something in your online shop and things go so fast now also with AIA that every day I have new ideas.

So that's one of the focus as I said.

And let's say the KPI's conversion rate and yeah just also revenue some good progress since then you can see the first results.

We also are now working with quite professional agency for Amazon and introduced A plus content.

Yeah also let's say we are getting more and more professional in the different e commerce channels.

D2C on the D2C side.

And also I think one thing it's worth to mention that we are more and more let's say when we started we produce glasses and we are a classical B2B business.

So we know we have to be there if you want to still to be a part of the big players.

So we are also investing now more time in working really closely with our online online resellers, with our online retail partners.

We to establish a dialogue in order to to protect the brand also that's something we are aware of and we started working on that.

It takes time but yeah, that's where we want to go.

Yeah.

So Bettina, I read that you actually originally come as I do from the fashion industry, fashion E commerce as well.

And we know fashion e commerce has like a hell of return rates.

I guess that glassware has not as high return rates as fashion luckily.

But I could imagine that there is like a lot more problems with like broken products who arrive.

So how is that one for you?

Yeah, you're 100% right Valerie.

Return rates are not yet such a topic for us.

They are really really low in comparison to fashion return rates.

But still for me even one, let's say even one return makes me thinking and it's too much, you know, like you think okay, is the product information right on the product page are the photos, do they really reflect the right reality?

So for me even as a return road rate is quite low and in Our case it's.

It's not even a two point figure.

So it's below 10%.

Still as you already mentioned, broken glass is a topic you never.

I think it's not possible to avoid that the glass breaks.

You already know even now we are into.

We got.

We get more and more internationals international part of of our sales are growing.

So this means yeah more hand.

More traveling times.

So the exposure is more important.

And so I just recently.

That's actually a topic I'm working on at the moment.

So yeah, our figures show that unfortunately it's growing with internationalization.

So we now will put an effort in protecting our packaging or glasses more by a better packaging.

But what really surprised me coming from fashion e commerce is the repurchase rate.

So in the glass business you are happy if a customer buys like again once one year, within a year.

But in fashion I think the target is easily twice as high.

So yeah, a good wine glass simply lasts four years.

And it's also also what we stand for.

We are break resistant.

But yeah, so let's say to though for me our role is to create new occasions for buying.

Maybe not, you know, not rebuy in the same year the same.

The same red wine glass for example but maybe in the Same year within 12 months you can buy a tumbler or a whiskey glass or complete your collection by buying also the champagne glass of the same collection.

So it fits well together.

Yeah, so that's.

That's I think the way we can make the come come.

We can make the customers come back.

Okay.

Bettina at New Mexico we talked a lot about internationalization and I was surprised and also amazed to hear about your international journey.

Some over 200 countries sometimes you're selling in.

So what how important is the international market for Stretzelhauset at the moment?

And how do you dec how you start in a new country like on an online shop or a marketplace or a local partner.

Yep, yep.

So I think as I already mentioned, international markets get more and more important also outside of Europe.

I think as for yeah many, many businesses we know also economics especially in Europe are not so great also in our own home country, Germany.

So one of or also for D2C my strategy is that we started at the beginning of this year and we will continue next year is to develop the international markets.

How do we decide?

So yeah, above all size and potential of the market decides and then the channel follows from that.

It really depends on the market.

For example, in the US market we also already talked a little bit about during the Mexico, we believe in the market.

We have a sister company there.

And where did we start?

We started where American customers already shop on Amazon.

This was quite, let's say, an easy choice to make.

And then in the second step we added Wayfair, the leading home goods platform and also Walmart and ebay.

So in the US we started with let's say on the D2C side with the marketplaces.

So they showed us that the product fits.

And the next step will be brand building.

And who says brand building also says own online shop.

We have already own own online shop in the U.S. but we do, let's say the focus is not on the online shop, but we now will accelerate on brand awareness and also focus on the online shop.

Then in Germany it's completely different.

Our focus here as it's our home market is to make the brand known.

And therefore, as I already told you, when I joined the company, my first focus was online shop.

To make it.

Yeah, it's our, it's our window to the world.

So yeah, I put the first focus has been on the online shop and then we focused on marketplaces.

So on how many or like with on how many marketplaces are you online?

I would, that would be super interesting for us as well.

As say in the D2C as a seller, not so much yet we are, for instance, it's only three marketplaces but you can find our products like nearly on every marketplace in the world.

There's.

So many resellers.

Exactly, exactly.

So it's even difficult to count it in the U.S. as I told you, it's four.

So yeah, I see it's more than 100.

That sounds like a very complex setup.

I mean.

If.

You're going different marketplaces or a different focus on online shopping per country, different resellers, different distributors, your hospitality partners also can sell on marketplaces if they want to.

So that creates like this huge network of partners and maybe sometimes competitors.

How do you keep control of all that and keep a hand on your brand?

Yeah, for me, control in E commerce doesn't mean necessarily selling everything yourself.

Sure, if you sell yourself, it's really easy to take control, but you also lose reach.

So in our case it means choosing the right partners.

So we've decided and it's a quite young decision.

Like I say, that's one of the points I worked with my colleagues from the sales team on since I joined the company.

So yeah, we've decided to focus on quality third party sellers.

So that presents a brand well, give good Advice and good service and just fit our high end positioning.

But that's still a way to go.

But once the decision is made we are now working on a sales channel strategy and our goal is to establish a strong dialogue with our partners because at the end of the day we want them to success, we want our brand to be successful, to be known and they can help us to make the brand known like all over the world.

Yeah, it does make sense.

And it's also something which is quite historically grown.

Right.

So I mean you are there for two years and Yeah, I mean before there was also stores allows its online sold.

Right.

So now it's like more about bringing it strategically together for you.

Right.

And then deciding where you add up with your assortment.

Directly selling on marketplaces.

Right?

Yeah.

Which are the three marketplaces you are selling right now?

Yeah.

Most important one is Amazon.

We are selling several European countries but also like Amazon OS and Latam in Brazil and.

And you're also on Auto.

Auto Germany and a specialized one.

I don't know if you know it, it's Javesco, it's wine control.

They sell wines, they opened, it's at a marketplace now they open to.

To sellers.

Yeah.

And.

But I have a really long list of marketplaces I want to go on live and I am testing at the moment.

So yeah, I think if we talk again like I don't know next year at the same time the number will be much more bigger.

Sounds good.

And do you also have a team for it or is it more like a one woman show?

It's a little bit like a one woman show.

I have a tiny, tiny team.

But therefore I also see my role and one of my strategies also internally is to work really closely with every department manager.

So logistics, production, marketing.

Exactly.

So I introduce E commerce everywhere at Stoltzless.

So.

I.

Really want to make the structure change so it supports E commerce in the long term and make it viable in the long term.

But yeah, as I also already mentioned that for Amazon for example we have a really great agency and they are, that's for me also what makes agency a good agency.

They are like an internal team for me.

As you just said, you have to work so closely with so many different departments within a company that has been online for a long time, that has a long tradition.

There's all these grown partnerships with wholesale partners and hospitality partners.

So how difficult is it to introduce the idea of E commerce and marketplaces, specifically the idea of change in a way that you are meant to bring to this Company.

How difficult is that?

To be honest, it is difficult.

You have to be patient.

You have to repeat yourself a lot.

But let's say it comes with a job.

It's normal.

So with my two years here, it's quite normal that change needs time.

But I can see that more and more.

Let's say the task is to explain why E commerce is important.

Or let's say everyone is also a consumer.

All my colleagues, everyone at Stoic has already bought something online and say no, that's like.

Is that even the future is already the past?

The future say I know, but so that's some.

I think that starts the question is more about how and how fast can we make the change.

But my strategy is dialogue.

I always try to.

Yeah.

To co work and to find also compromises when it's okay, maybe you cannot do it today.

Maybe it's too soon, it's too early in our stage.

Then okay, let's talk three months later.

And then.

And I can see that things are changing.

For example, we are at the moment, we are changing our whole logistics structure in order also to be adapted to e commerce.

D2C logistics that are also completely different.

I remember so much when you are explaining back to my time.

It MEANT it's like 10 years ago.

But I remember so much like oh, we can do B2B packages, but no B2C.

And I'm pretty sure you are perfectly in selling part pellets to I don't know, Hong Kong.

Right?

But.

If you have like one package of like six wine glasses, it's like oh, how shall we send that one?

So that's not broken.

Yeah,.

Yeah,.

Yeah.

But yeah, we are getting.

Time.

Yeah, it takes time.

And for my.

Since I think it's a.

Since I already have the experience with the French businesses going in other markets.

So I know you have to be patient, you have to repeat yourself and you have to insist a little bit.

And yeah, just.

Like planting seeds and then.

Go ahead.

Taking really good care about them.

Right?

Yeah,.

Yeah.

Well, talking about some of the worms that are going to eat the feed the seeds.

If I'm keeping in the picture here, what I often hear about from brands that are taking the route that you are taking at the moment, these are like these two big things and the one thing is prices and how much they.

They go down and down and down.

The more retailers you have, the more.

The less control you have over brand online and the Other is copycats, look alikes, fraud in a way.

So maybe start with prices first.

Is there, how much hand do you have on price discipline?

You mentioned that you're talking a lot to your retail partners, but I mean, there are so many of them out there and there's a gray market, of course.

Can you keep a hand on prices?

As a manufacturer, we can't and shouldn't dictate prices.

As you know, in the eu, that's the retailer's decision.

And that's right.

What we can do is shape the conditions, choose the partners who share our quality standards.

And what we can shape is the product content, the consistent and strong product content.

And that's also one of the reasons why, for example, decided to go also so strong on Amazon and do the best content we can, if it is for us as a seller or our resellers, you know, content and it's still true content is king sincere and the States stays this way.

So yeah, that's what we focus on.

And we are also more and more thinking about the assortment.

So sets made for specific channels, maybe also some exclusive products for our own online shop.

So at this point for me, what matters more is the consistency than the price discipline.

And we want to make sure today that customers should get the same or get the same stoltzle experience wherever they buy.

And to come to your second question, yeah, copies and lookalikes, copies, meaning fakes sold under our name, do happen.

They do happen, but they are not our main issue.

The bigger topic is look alikes, so other brands with very similar shapes.

And I mean, let's be honest, for anyone who isn't a glass nerd like us, I've become one like within two years.

It's really.

Yeah, it really goes.

Can happen quickly.

Yeah, a wine glass from one manufacturer can look a lot like a wine glass from another one if you are not like really technical about glasses, especially in a small picture online on your phone.

But at the end of the day, glass is craftsmanship and that's much harder to copy than with many other products to produce a glass, it's not so easy.

So for example, our pool stems, now the stem, as I already mentioned, is drawn out of the bowl itself.

So none of that shows.

Sure, you try to show it in a picture, but at the end of the day it's more about the feeling you get.

And yeah, once you hold one of our glasses in your hand, you can feel the difference between our glasses and let's say a more cheaper lookalike.

Yeah, that makes.

Sense.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

But.

It's also harder to transfer it on the picture and the content, right?

Yes, it is.

Yeah, yeah,.

Yeah, yeah.

Bettina looking a bit at the time.

Let's move into the future maybe a bit because you've been telling us about the situation you are in at the moment.

So you just teased us a bit what we might expect if we met again in a year.

What will your job at for E Commerce at Laosis look like in about three years?

What's your goal?

Like a general goal?

Like just.

Yeah, my goal in three years is that I go through Paris.

I'm walking in Paris, in London, Berlin, Stuttgart, Madrid, you name it.

And I ask somebody, see if she or he knows Sturtzel Lausitz and then I want to hear a yes.

Okay.

Tall order.

Three years to go, I guess.

Yeah.

The lady for changes is all set I think if you want to make that happen.

And that brings me maybe to the last question that we also didn't have enough time to debate to the Mexico.

You will also need to be known to the AI agents.

So if I type into ChatGPT or Gemini, whatever and tell them I need new glasses for wine, it should tell me go to Schwarzen Lausitz.

So what do you think about this new way of shopping?

Is that taking over or maybe also, I don't know, changing all the plans that you had for E Commerce transformation at Schwarz Lausit?

Because you have to think completely new now.

No, I don't think so.

So I think first of all changes but in general changes are always an opportunity.

So let's say whether we lose or win is up to us.

And IA assistants recommend what they can win.

Consistent product data reviews, clear specs.

And let's say our role is still to make.

Yeah.

To make our information accessible, readable.

And in our case for Schulz Lausitz we are an heritage brand and that is a big plus.

People look for brands with a real story and real craftsmanship.

So our task is to make that readable for people and for the machines.

So I'm really excited about it.

Sure it's a challenge, but it's also a big opportunity.

And what's our task now is to be, let's say among the early adapters and improve our data like every day.

Yeah, that's it.

So yeah, for me it's an opportunity.

Yeah, that's actually a good last words I would say to see is as an opportunity because it is it.

And now you have all the possibilities to frame it and to.

Yeah, make it count for everything you need in the future.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for your deep dive, Bettina.

It was really nice to have you here and to get more insights about.

Absolutely.

The story of a 137 year old glassmaker learning to play the Marketplace game.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

Huge thank you to you, Bettina.

It was great to have you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And yeah, actually what was the story?

You heard it from a market entry with a fragile product to.

Yeah.

Retailers and complex structures.

A grown, historically grown brand on the Marketplace business and so many countries you are selling in.

I think that was quite an interesting episode and a new product category for us because this was the first time we had.

That's true.

That's true.

Tableware.

We didn't have tableware at all before.

That's true.

So, yeah, I would say.

If you enjoyed this episode, please follow us and subscribe to let's Talk Marketplace on Spotify, Apple Podcast, YouTube or wherever you are listening to us.

It was a real pleasure today and maybe you also want to join us for one of our events.

I think Bettina's also already registered for one of our events in the future in Berlin, if I'm correct.

So happy to see you somewhere in person because this is also.

Yeah.

What we are looking for.

And this is one of my last episodes for a while with Ingrid.

I am soonish offline with my baby boy and my family to Thailand and I'm on an extended break.

So Ingrid will take care of the business again and of the podcast.

Yep, that's fine.

We're going to hold the fort here.

We will do one last episode together.

That's true.

Where I can do a little update for you and give you the latest Marketplace news.

We would do that next week and yeah, for today, thank you very much for listening and Bettina, thank you much for joining us.

Thank you,.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Bye.

You listened to let's Talk Marketplace, the Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Vanahy Dichtel.