“Peak Amazon” is back. The recurring narrative suggests that Amazon has passed its zenith – saturated markets, slowing growth, eroding dominance. Yet with USD 717 billion in revenue in 2025, surpassing Walmart for the first time, the data paints a more complex picture.
In this family & friends news episode, Ingrid is joined by Andrea Engelmann (OnMacon) to question whether we are really seeing structural limits – or simply strategic prioritisation. The Netherlands serves as a case in point: Amazon is investing €1.4 billion in logistics, infrastructure and visibility, and has already overtaken bol in search visibility. The idea of “romantic local heroes” standing firm against global giants sounds appealing – but when Amazon decides a market matters, power dynamics shift quickly.
Beyond the Peak debate, they discuss TikTok Shop’s $100 billion GMV milestone, the rise of Roblox as a Gen Z commerce environment, Reddit exploring community-driven commerce, regulatory pressure on the Buy Box, and the open question of how AI agents will reshape platform control.
A focused conversation about shifting ecosystems – and why “peak” may be the wrong lens to assess what’s happening.
Note from the sponsor Channable:
Different feeds, different platform requirements, manual workarounds – and a lack of transparency. Does this everyday chaos in marketplace operations sound familiar? Then the next podcast episode is exactly what you need.
We talk to the drugstore brand KoRo about precisely this chaos, and how to bring it to an end. KoRo is known for its natural food products and now sells across multiple channels: brick-and-mortar retail, its own online shop, and marketplaces such as Amazon and Kaufland. Adrien Gosteli from KoRo will explain how the team structured its marketplace activities and brought operational complexity back under control. The case is supported by Lucas Bassa, Product Lead Marketplaces at Channable. If you are responsible for marketplaces, want to scale your company, or are already operating at an expert level, make sure to tune in next week – this case will be well worth it.
Transcript
I do think it's naive to ignore it or to think that it will pass because this sort of commerce will get stronger and stronger.
Speaker B:Let's Talk Marketplace, the Marketplace podcast with
Speaker A:Ingrid Lommer and Van Viedrichte.
Speaker B:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to let's Talk Marketplace.
Speaker B:I'm Ingrid and it's great to have you with me again and again, it's just me because my co host Valerie is still on maternity leave.
Speaker B:So today, as it's the beginning of the month, I would normally do my monthly news review with her, but as she's not here, I have been looking for replacement.
Speaker B:And so this is another one of our Marketplace universe, let's Talk Marketplace friends and family episodes.
Speaker B:And this time with me is a good old business friend of mine which I have known for years on LinkedIn, and we just debated when we have first met, but we're going to talk about that a bit later.
Speaker B:So very, very welcome to Andrea Engelmann, CEO of the Marketplace and retail media consultancy on Markron.
Speaker B:So greetings to Hamburg, Andrea, it's great to have you.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's really cool that you're here now because I just.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:We were just wondering when we first met.
Speaker B:I think we.
Speaker B:I went in contact with you years ago on LinkedIn when I was speaking specifically looking for female voices in the Marketplace business and stumbled upon you.
Speaker B:And then we were on and off on LinkedIn all the time.
Speaker B:And when did we meet live?
Speaker B:What do you remember?
Speaker A:I thought about that and I think that we met in person for the first time about two years ago on a Marketplace Universe Connect event in Cologne.
Speaker A:I remember that evening.
Speaker A:It was fantastic, great conversations.
Speaker A:It was so many nice people there.
Speaker A:And yeah, I think that was the first time we spoke in person.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker B:That was a great time that we had there.
Speaker B:Okay, so, yeah, I of course know who you are.
Speaker B:Our listeners might not.
Speaker B:So why don't you introduce yourself?
Speaker A:Yes, sure.
Speaker A:I'm Andrea, I'm 44, I live near Hamburg and I'm managing director at Onmacon, a marketplace agency specialized in product data optimization and retail media for fashion and lifestyle brands.
Speaker A:So once the brands are on the marketplaces, we do everything to make them perform better.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And what would you say is your personal USP in the marketplace world?
Speaker B:What do you personally do best?
Speaker A:I think, and that's something you say all the time.
Speaker A:Marketplace business is people's business and I love to work with people and the agents, agency.
Speaker A:We value the contact with humans.
Speaker A:Very much so.
Speaker A:We put a lot of effort in getting to know the people behind the brands and to work together closely to get the most out of the marketplace business together.
Speaker A:And I think that's one of our strongest points there.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah.
Speaker B:So, and finally, because this is something that we always ask our guests here, you have a fun fact about yourself.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, of course.
Speaker A:My fun fact is, and you know this already, but I literally, I just returned from a four week trip to Australia and I did my very best not to follow any marketplace news whatsoever.
Speaker A:So every news is very new to me and I'm really glad that we get a chance to discuss it today to bring me up to date.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's glorious.
Speaker B:That's that fun fact.
Speaker B:You do that regularly, do you?
Speaker B:Like full of several weeks going to Australia.
Speaker A:It was a ninth time.
Speaker B:The ninth time.
Speaker B:Okay, wow.
Speaker B:Well, it is a big continent.
Speaker B:There's lots to see, of course.
Speaker A:Yes, that's true.
Speaker A:And I hope that next time I get one free so I get to stay there maybe.
Speaker B:In which area were you?
Speaker A:We were in Tasmania first and then went on to southwestern Australia.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I won't let you talk to my husband because he always tries to get me to Australia and always.
Speaker B:And I always go like, no, I'm not going to Australia.
Speaker B:Too many poisonous things there.
Speaker A:We can talk about that later.
Speaker A:And I can assure you I've not seen any poisonous animals.
Speaker A:They are there, but usually you don't see them.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I'm really happy that you're here today and that we.
Speaker B:I can give you an update on everything that happened in the last four weeks in the marketplace area.
Speaker B:And yeah, I think we can dive right in, I guess, because the first thing that I'd like to talk about is something that I think is something that you as an Amazon and retail media expert have been hearing a lot and that is this idea of peak Amazon, this idea of that Amazon is reaching its peak, that then it's going to decline.
Speaker B:And this is a story that I've been hearing over the last five years, I think at least seven times, and it hasn't happened so far.
Speaker B:And now again, it's being told when it comes to agent E commerce that Amazon is lagging behind.
Speaker B:Well, up to now the numbers are telling a different story because for the first time in 13 years, Amazon has now officially surpassed Walmart in its annual revenue.
Speaker B:illion for the fiscal year of:Speaker B:And there's another one of those shifts that happening that is happening not when it comes to GMV but when it comes to search volume.
Speaker B:And that is has happened in the Netherlands where Amazon is now aggressively challenging the local champion bull.com they have overtaken Bull in search volume and organic visibility, which is huge for the Netherlands, which has been a bull years.
Speaker B:So yeah, how are you looking at Amazon?
Speaker B:Is there an end to the success story of Amazon somewhere inside in your opinion?
Speaker A:Actually, I think a lot of people hope that there is an end, but your figures show Amazon decides when there's an end and it doesn't look like it, to be honest.
Speaker A:And yeah, I think to look at the local heroes like Bull, this is very romantic.
Speaker A:So it's a very romantic look.
Speaker A:And there's one small country and there's one marketplace and Amazon doesn't play a huge role there.
Speaker A:And yeah, the figures show that it is Amazon's decision on how important a country is and if they want, they do have the investment power to go in there and like take it.
Speaker B:So, okay, that's an interesting take.
Speaker B:So you're saying Amazon is now taking the Netherlands seriously and this is why they are now like on their victory march here?
Speaker A:Yes, I think so.
Speaker A:The huge investment plan in infrastructure logistics shows that they want to have the Netherlands and yeah, I think you should take that seriously.
Speaker A:And it's, it's difficult for the local platforms to compete with Amazon if they try to be like Amazon.
Speaker A:I think there's a chance if they try to differentiate.
Speaker B:But yeah, but.
Speaker B:Well, Bull basically is a generalist and ongoing for the same market here.
Speaker B:The huge investment you were talking about is 1.4 billion euro in investment that Amazon has now aiming at the level at the Dutch market, which is pretty huge going for logistics, of course, and infrastructure mostly.
Speaker B:So yeah, that speaks a lot about them taking the market seriously.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm in two minds on this, I have to say, because I know the guys from Bol and they are fighting back of course, and they are doing good things and they have a strong position as well.
Speaker B:So it's going to be interesting.
Speaker B:But yeah, Amazon's taking bit by bit the market.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:You can just hope that it will be enough in fighting back because in the end it's the decision of the customer.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And the customer values very much fast decision making, fast delivery and if they're presented by this and there's not more against it, it's going to be difficult.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Talking about what the customer wants.
Speaker B:We can move over to the next topic on my list, which is some developments in social and immersive commerce.
Speaker B:And I've been looking at, for example, news on TikTok shop.
Speaker B:I mean, TikTok shop has now hit a massive GMV milestone.
Speaker B:They are now up to US$100 billion in GMV, which is quite a thing.
Speaker B:They are not as as strong in Germany and other central European markets, but the main markets is of course the us but also UK is really going strong and it has very strong growth rates in Europe as well.
Speaker B:So, yeah, TikTok shop, what you're thinking about them.
Speaker A:I have to say that my relationship to TikTok has completely changed over the last two years.
Speaker A:I remember that two years ago I said, I don't want anything to do with TikTok.
Speaker A:Leave me alone.
Speaker A:And now it's not a very popular take, but I think I'm a fan So I use TikTok daily.
Speaker A:Ever bought something on TikTok shop?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And yeah, I do think it's naive to ignore it or to think that it will pass because this sort of commerce will get stronger and stronger.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So are you having customers as well that are Already live on TikTok shop?
Speaker A:Not at the moment, no.
Speaker B:Okay, interesting.
Speaker B:This is something that I often hear, especially from the German market, that brands
Speaker A:are still very hesitant.
Speaker B:They're very hesitant and looking at this like, how does this work and what do I do if things go viral and how I go out of stock?
Speaker B:And this is strange, this is not working like Amazon does.
Speaker B:I don't like it.
Speaker B:So yeah, I mean, how could you overcome this kind of hesitance?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I think you have to think back on what does work and the question is what products do work on TikTok shop?
Speaker A:And I think that will change as well.
Speaker A:Because if you think on what has always existed is like something like tailor shopping, it works if you see videos of tv, how products are used and shown.
Speaker A:Because the biggest weakness in online shopping is that you have to rely on product images and product descriptions to make a decision and to see the products in use, that makes a huge difference.
Speaker A:And if the platforms are used more and more by more and more people, even by me, then this will become a thing.
Speaker A:So you can't ignore it.
Speaker B:Which actually fits the study that I just read before we went into our recording today which told me that millenniums millennials have now taken over Gen Z as the biggest users of TikTok.
Speaker B:So you are right on trend so
Speaker A:it will soon become uncool and they're
Speaker B:going to be looking for a new platform.
Speaker B:Which actually brings me nicely to my next topic because there is this very fast growing channel for Gen Z which is called Roblox, which is basically, yeah, you could say something of a TikTok for gamers in a way.
Speaker B:I have no idea.
Speaker B:I mean I'm Gen X, I haven't used it and I don't let my sons use it, so I haven't seen it live.
Speaker B:But I have seen the growth rates and they are quite impressive.
Speaker B:They are now the fastest growing shopping channel for Gen Z with Roblox and the numbers of users are growing fantastically.
Speaker B:And what is also very strange on Roblox is the high retention rate.
Speaker B:So users are staying on the platform much longer than they're staying on any other channel which is of course very nice for commerce driven brands here.
Speaker B:So yeah, have you heard of Roblox before?
Speaker A:No, I haven't.
Speaker A:To be completely honest, I don't have kids, I'm not a gamer and I'm 44 as I said.
Speaker A:So I don't.
Speaker A:But I don't know it, but I was very, I had very mixed feelings about TikTok two years ago and see where we are now.
Speaker A:So yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm really excited about what happened, what happens with Roblox.
Speaker B:Yeah, me too.
Speaker B:I'm still not sure what I have what I should think about it.
Speaker B:As I said, it's a platform that I wouldn't let my kids use, which is normally not a good sign for platform.
Speaker B:But yeah, we will look into it definitely because I think there's something growing here that people don't have on their agendas and maybe should.
Speaker B:So yeah, watch out for a soon coming marketplace universe portrait of blocks and then we'll have a deeper look into this.
Speaker B:And another platform that is actually coming right into this tale of social and immersive commerce is Reddit, which is something like a, I don't know, a forum quality social network that is much bigger in the US as it is here and they are now also looking for ways to monetize their platform through community validated commerce, which I also find interesting that a platform like that, that is mostly known for questions and answers and sometimes very in depth discussions of very niche topics is now also looking for this general route of monetization through commerce.
Speaker B:How many of those social platforms can we have?
Speaker A:That's a good question and I think why does every platform has to look into that route?
Speaker A:Because Reddit it stands for like research as you mentioned, very in depth discussions on several topics and if they are looking to place some buy now buttons everywhere, I don't know if that will do them good.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, when I read that I was mostly confused I think.
Speaker B:But again, something to keep an eye on, something that you should definitely not just keep an eye on but get more information and keep up with is the whole topic of agentic commerce.
Speaker B:And of course you can't go by for a week without having at least three new news items on gente commerce at the moment things are moving extremely fast.
Speaker B:And of course things were also happening in February on that.
Speaker B:I think the one thing that I wanted to debate with you because there's actually this is too much to go over all the things that were happening.
Speaker B:But the most interesting thing for an Amazon advertising specialist such as yourself might be the creative agent which Amazon has launched in February.
Speaker B:An agentic AI that researches brand guidelines and product pages to build entire multi scene video campaigns autonomously.
Speaker B:And sellers are supposed to be able to use this creative agent now for their own Amazon campaigns.
Speaker B:So first of all, what are you thinking about these kind of tools that Amazon is launching at the moment?
Speaker A:Well, I think, I think it's a logical next step, right, because there is AI and there are tools and Amazon wants to implement them and to have the control about what people do and what they use.
Speaker A:So that seems like a logical step.
Speaker A:We have to see how that works because if a platform itself offers tool that automatically optimizes everything, it can go.
Speaker A:Well, it can go wrong.
Speaker A:So it's always good to have a good look at what is happening and
Speaker B:yeah, but we will see what is this doing to the scene of Amazon agencies.
Speaker A:We have this waves of.
Speaker A:I think I can do everything by myself in sellers every couple of years and sometimes it goes away faster, sometimes it stays longer.
Speaker A:But still I think you need people who know what they're doing to use that tools or to operate the tools.
Speaker A:But yeah, of course the TO dos will shift towards data analyzing and reporting and other things than maybe building campaigns or making videos.
Speaker A:So it is a shift, it is a natural shift.
Speaker B:But yeah, well, yeah, this is, I'm looking at this and I'm thinking like okay, let's see.
Speaker B:I mean I'm, I'm using AI extensively every day and I'm, I'm using I think three different agents to do my work.
Speaker B:So yeah, I'm, I'm absolutely not against it.
Speaker B:But then I also realize every day the limitations that you have with Even simple tasks and the way that things are not reproducible.
Speaker B:Like on one day it's really good and smart and fast, and on the other days I just want to, I don't know, slam the AI head somewhere in the AI desk because it's being so stupid.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I don't think you can really rely on it completely autonomously.
Speaker B:And the same goes, of course, for things like campaigns, which are an extremely complex matter.
Speaker B:But yeah, we'll see.
Speaker B:But if we turn this on the other side.
Speaker B:So on the side of the consumer, I find it interesting that Amazon is pushing for the use of AI towards its sellers a lot and is also, you know, letting off people because they are now focusing much more on AI inside their own company.
Speaker B:But on the other hand, they are shutting out AI agents.
Speaker B:They have now enforced this with a new business solution agreement that is going on, that is going on into effect today, actually, which legally requires all AI agents, including pricing and advertising bots, to identify themselves so that Amazon can shut them out whenever they want.
Speaker B:So I find that interesting.
Speaker B:Do you think Amazon can keep that up, shutting out shopping agents, like forever?
Speaker A:I do think it's interesting, but I don't think it's surprising because of course they want to keep control.
Speaker A:But yeah, it will be questionable if they can hold up to this forever.
Speaker A:I don't think so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do you actually think about.
Speaker B:And again, as an expert for advertising as well, what is all this agent E commerce doing to retail media if we only have bots shopping on marketplaces?
Speaker B:Do you even need retail media anymore?
Speaker A:First, I can't imagine having only bots shopping everything and that.
Speaker A:I think you have to differentiate that.
Speaker A:What kind of products are you talking about?
Speaker A:Is it, I need.
Speaker A:I know exactly what I need and I need it quick or I. I wouldn't trust any AI agent to buy fashion for me, for example.
Speaker A:Not yet.
Speaker A:Maybe in the future, but not yet.
Speaker A:So there are, there will always be places for retail media and the platforms are looking into monetization as well.
Speaker A:And look at the revenue Amazon makes from marketing budgets.
Speaker A:So this will not go away.
Speaker A:But it might shift.
Speaker B:Yes, it might shift and it also might shift to the agents themselves.
Speaker B:I mean, thinking about Shopify ads now being directly integrated into ChatGPT or OpenAI generally opening its platform to ads now.
Speaker A:So, yeah, and definitely.
Speaker A:And if you think, I think back when Google Shopping started, Google product ads started, they were free.
Speaker A:And then once it was running, they became.
Speaker A:Google monetized this, of course.
Speaker A:And so this kind of history is Repeating itself.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That about wraps up the most important things.
Speaker B:Just one other topic that I wanted to bring to your attention which you might not have seen because you were in Australia.
Speaker B:I'm having great holidays because that was something that blew up in the beginning of the month, especially in the German market.
Speaker B:The German Kartel office, the Bundeskartelamt has released a statement which prohibits Amazon from suppressing the buy box access based on higher prices compared to external websites.
Speaker B:So the regular later fined Amazon 59 million euro and ordered a cessation of the price control mechanisms that forced third party sellers into price matching parity across the web.
Speaker B:That was a big one.
Speaker B:And we also saw how big it was by Amazon's reaction because that was very, very harsh.
Speaker B:I mean the, the press release that was released by Amazon, I think just a day later was basically telling the cartel amp that they didn't have any idea how E commerce worked and that Amazon was ready to fight this to the last instance.
Speaker B:Which shows me that the cartel office stroke a nerve here.
Speaker B:So, and I looked at that and I wondered, okay, what does this mean?
Speaker B:Is this the end of, you know, the, the price crawlers that Amazon is sending all over the web to look for lower prices than on their own website and then using this information to basically, yeah, push the sellers in question out of the buy box?
Speaker B:Is that the end of this?
Speaker B:So yeah, I thought that was quite juicy.
Speaker B:Did you look at that at all?
Speaker A:Yes, when I read that news I thought, at first I thought that's fantastic because of course it opens so much opportunities sellers.
Speaker A:It could be in theory a huge step towards profitability on Amazon, especially if you, if you're struggling, you have more freedom in pricing articles on different platforms.
Speaker A:Sounds really good, but I think it's much too early to open the champagne on this because Amazon will find ways and they can control their algorithm as they want.
Speaker A:So they will have means to decrease visibility if they want to and factor other, other things more than price.
Speaker A:And then it's reviews or delivery times or stock or whatever.
Speaker A:And yeah, so yeah, could be good but I'm a bit pessimistic.
Speaker B:Yeah, I actually saw one of the things that Amazon could do which I found quite ingenious.
Speaker B:Some Amazon expert I think from the US found signs of Amazon using a new label on listings that were more expensive on Amazon than on other platforms.
Speaker B:And then this listing said like cheaper elsewhere.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker B:I mean this is basically okay, we're letting you be on the platform.
Speaker B:We're not taking off your, your listing because you are not matching our low price policy.
Speaker B:But we are actually telling the customer to shun away from your listing because you're the bad boy and you're listing it more expensive fear.
Speaker A:I found that interesting, but actually cheaper elsewhere could, could mean if you have an online shop that people go directly to your shops.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:Could lead to interesting strategies.
Speaker B:Yeah, this was a test of Amazon.
Speaker B:Let's see if they actually pulling that through.
Speaker B:But that was a nice thing that I found because I thought, okay, is this like a direct reaction to the Bundeskatertellamt or what is this?
Speaker B:But yeah, we'll see.
Speaker B:Yeah, things are still moving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I guess that concludes my news for today.
Speaker B:Thanks for debating with me, Andrea.
Speaker B:Before we wrap this up, I'll tell you very quickly what we're going to do in our next episode.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:In our next episode of let's Talk Marketplace, we will talk about something that will feel familiar to many of you and that is the constant chaos that is marketplace business.
Speaker B:At least very often.
Speaker B:Different feeds, varying requirements across platforms, manual workarounds and a lack of visibility.
Speaker B:All these problems are part of our solution of our episode next week and also their solution because we will talk to the drugstore brand Koro, which experienced just this chaos and also learned ways on how to stop it.
Speaker B:Koro is known for its natural food products and now sells multi channel in physical retail through its own online shop and on marketplaces such as Amazon and Kaufland.
Speaker B:And Adrian Costelli from Koro will explain to us how the team structured its marketplace operations and how operational complexity was finally turned back into control.
Speaker B:The case will be supported by Lucas Basse, product lead, Marketplaces at Channable, the service provider who helped co with this problem.
Speaker B:At the core is one central question.
Speaker B:How can marketplaces turn feed Marketplace teams turn feed chaos into a scalable setup without starting from scratch every time?
Speaker B:So if you're responsible for marketplaces in your brand or your retailer so scaling your business or are already operating at an expert level, then you should really tune in next week because this case will definitely be worth it.
Speaker B:Happy to see you there.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So Andrea, I hope you had just as much fun as I had on the show.
Speaker B:It was great having you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:And I hope you're now up to date again and ready to start into the next weeks where you will have to get used to working again, I guess.
Speaker B:So what is on your agenda at the moment.
Speaker B:What is the most pressing thing that you're working on?
Speaker A:The calendar is full.
Speaker A:A lot of meetings, a lot of getting up to date on everything.
Speaker A:So, yeah, nothing specific, but a lot.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And on which events could someone meet you if they wanted to talk to you?
Speaker A:I'll be at ECD Munich and K5 in Berlin.
Speaker A:That's the next two.
Speaker A:And the others?
Speaker A:Not decided yet, but yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Keep your eyes open.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then we'll definitely meet each other in ecd because we.
Speaker B:Halloween will also be there.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So thank you for today, and thanks to everyone out there for listening, and I hope you tune in next time again.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:You listen to let's Talk Marketplace, the Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Vanari Dichtel.