The UK marketplace landscape – Insider edition #LTM129

If you look at assortments based on Amazon, they tend to be kind of entry level, value driven, really price led.

That's why people go to Amazon, right, because they get the best deal, right.

And I think for brands it's a real challenge in maintaining identity and price perception in an area whereby it's driven by convenience and it's driven by algorithms and not really driven by brand equity is probably the biggest challenge with Amazon.

Let's Talk Marketplace.

The Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Vana Rie Dichter.

Hello and welcome back to let's Talk Marketplace.

Glad you tuned in again.

I'm Ingrid and with me, as always, is Valerie.

And today I think we'll be doing one of our country episodes in which we take a deeper look at the marketplace landscape of one particular European country.

Haven't done one of those in a while, so about time, I think.

And we have a very special guest for today's show, haven't we?

Valerie, why don't you introduce him?

He's, you know, yours after all.

Well, yes, indeed.

With us today is one of the dearest members of the Marketplace Leaders circle for softlines, our exclusive brand community for marketplace decision makers in right now fashion, sports and accessories industry.

And yeah, during our running season, he has been the go to person for every question on the UK Marketplace business, especially for the fashion and sports market.

And this is what we want to talk with you about today on the show.

So welcome Neil Lauderdale.

Thanks, Valerie.

Thanks, Ingrid.

Nice to be here.

Yeah, great to have you on the show, Neil.

As Valerie said, you've been an invaluable source of information for our community members and that's why we thought why don't we get him on the show and, you know, show everyone what good insights you bring to our circle.

So, but as not every one of our listeners might know you already, maybe let's first introduce you a little bit.

We've got our three questions for that and the first one would be who are you?

Neil?

Great question.

So, yeah, I'm Neil Lauderdale.

I've been in the sports and fashion industry for 25 plus years, worked in multiple different functions from retail through to product.

And the last probably 15 years of my career has been based around commercial and commercial leadership, with the last five years of that being solely focused around marketplaces and marketplace development.

So I've worked with some big brands like Nike in the past and recently been part of the Pentland team heading up their Marketplace program.

Yeah.

Great.

So what would you say, do you do best in the marketplace Business.

What's your usp?

As a marketplace person, I like to move fast, make decisions and learn as we go.

I think that's.

The marketplaces are so new at the moment, still new for a lot of brands, still new for a lot of retailers.

And I think if you move fast, make decisions quickly, you learn very, very quickly.

I think that's.

That's been the biggest strength that we've brought to the marketplace program.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, and to get you a bit more in person, what's a fun fact about yourself?

Oh, great question.

Fun fact about myself is you can probably see I love playing guitars.

Yes, I noticed.

Yeah.

And I. I played guitar at our last Christmas party for the first time.

Played in front of a crowd and so fulfilled a lifelong ambition.

Cool.

What did you play?

An Oasis track, funnily enough.

Of course.

Very nice.

Great.

And Neil, you're also located in the uk, right?

Yeah, based in the uk.

All my life, all the roles I've had have been UK based.

Although the current role of the role I've just come from did have Amir responsibilities as well.

So I've kind of seen it from both sides, from both the UK perspective and also the European perspective.

So, Ingrid, as I told you, right, Neil is really the perfect guest if you want to debate the UK marketplace business for fashion and sports.

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Okay, then I would say let's go get started and learn a bit more about the UK fashion market with the help of Neil.

So maybe as you have led the marketplace business for several major fashion brands in the UK and also have been in close contact now through our community as well with your colleagues from the continent, so to speak.

So what would you say is the key lesson that stands out?

If you just look at the UK fashion market, what does it separate from other markets?

Maybe?

Yeah.

I think from a marketplace point of view it's the biggest lessons we've taken is that it's not just another sales channel.

You can't treat it just like another sales channel.

These have to be seen as brand building kind of ecosystems for, for your company.

And success is all dependent on balancing that commercial need with brand integrity.

And hence why, you know, at Pentland we would be asked weekly for new marketplaces and we were very selective about the marketplaces we went into because that brand equity has to be front and foremost of, of what you're trying to do.

I think the other big learnings for us was around data.

We thought our data was good and it probably wasn't as good as it needed to be.

So the data has to be clean, it has to be robust and it has to be really consistent for success across all marketplaces.

I think then you've got to look at data and the data, sorry, the content has to be consumer relevant and the more you move into areas like TikTok, which I know we'll kind of touch on, the more this has to be user generated and unique to the platform it's actually on.

And then the other big part, which a lot of people find difficulty in finding and coming into the uk, just as we would find difficulty going out of the uk is the logistics part of it.

The logistics part is critical because consumers want their products as soon as possible and don't want to have to delay for any logistics reasons.

I think the other bit is around that the UK market's moving really fast.

Right.

I think when we first started with Pentland nearly five years ago, there were a couple of big players who were in the marketplace and that was you kind of joined them and you learned from ways what you were doing then.

But they tended to be hybrid relationships with wholesale partners who wanted to extend den or who wanted to increase availability from what we're trying to do.

The market has moved so fast now that the pure marketplaces are starting really to kind of get traction and take control almost.

That includes a lot of work around pricing.

So pricing becomes really, really important for the UK and storytelling.

Because it can't just be a brand moment, it has to be consumer led brand moment.

From a content point of view.

I think that if we have like put it on the whole perspective, because we did the UK episode together, was that there is like a completely different view from internal UK to UK marketplace business compared to from Central European to the UK in terms of marketplaces.

So what we realized or what I realized was we, we from Central Europe.

Yeah, right.

Like from Germany.

We were like so many brands asking like, hey, can you bring us, can you connect us with asos?

And I think Asus is such a good example exactly for this attitude.

Because ASUS is as a marketplace really not that relevant in the UK and UK people.

If I ask you or someone else from the community, also from England, hey, are you online at asus?

And you were like, no, it's not on our roadmap.

Why do you ask?

Because it's just not relevant and not as big enough.

And I think ASUS as a whole online shop and wholesaler is relevant, but as a marketplace business it's not.

And then the other one is Zalando and we would say, oh yeah, it's easier to now sell on Zalando because if you're already online in Germany, Netherlands, etc.

Then you can easily go and sell your products at Zalando in the uk.

But also this one is not as relevant.

It's for you, for UK people, it's super interesting to sell your products maybe from the UK into Zalando, Germany or Netherlands.

But Zalando is also not really highly relevant.

Right.

In the UK marketplace business.

No, we, we connected with Zalando quite early on, but we only opened in the eu.

We didn't open the UK because for a UK consumer there are other competitors out there from a retail perspective.

The likes of a next.

The likes of a very.

The likes of an asos.

Right.

That will always be a UK consumer's first choice because of the history, the trust that a consumer has within those retailers.

So we didn't, we made the decision not to open Zalando and UK just because of relevance for, for the consumer.

There's also the logistical element of it as well is like how do you fulfill to Zalando?

Do you use zfs?

Do you use Zios?

Do you use your own fulfillment?

Yeah.

And then it starts becoming expensive.

So we decided not to do it in terms of asos.

We had a traditional wholesale relationship with asos and that is what it was.

It was a certain size of business.

And then ASOS made the strategic call to switch a lot of brands to full partner fulfilled marketplace.

We were part of that and I saw that as a real positive for us from an ASOS perspective because it puts the brand back in control of the assortment, puts the brand back in control of pricing and therefore you can control the margin, the volumes going through and you can start to build a more profitable business than potentially what the wholesale element of that looked like.

Now for some brands, that was a real challenge to make happen.

For us we saw it as a real kind of game changer and opportunity.

And for Pentland in particular, ASOS is currently our biggest or was currently our biggest marketplace.

ASOS also gives you the opportunity to expand into Europe if you want to.

But then there's all kinds of challenges.

Yeah, it's kind of the opposite of Zalando for the uk, Right.

It's, it's kind of, I think if you're UK based, ASOS is probably the one you, you go with because of the model.

It's transitioning it transitioning itself into.

Whereas things Orlando for a UK consumer just isn't.

Isn't there.

It's not front of mind.

Yeah.

So what was the marketplace business like then UK in fashion area in say two years ago?

Because you said, okay, ASUS is, you have been with AS as a wholesale partner and they have just been starting to move some vendors to the marketplace.

And then you mentioned Next and Vari and both of those opened their marketplace I think just in the last 18 months or something or two years max.

And Zalando is not really important.

So who are the main players when it comes to the marketplace side?

Maybe let's skip like separate this question in terms of like fashion and sports.

So.

Yeah, okay.

Because there are like two main differences I would say.

Yeah.

So I think in terms of sports for us, it's not really one sports retailer, sports only retailer that we would kind of go with with the brands that we, we would work with.

It would tend to be a crossover between sports and fashion.

So it really would be the likes of Next who have had, we've had a relationship or we had a relationship with Next for definitely the last five years from a, from a dropship point of view.

So it was a dropship model.

Very.

Have gone through some challenges with their integration and we were part of it.

And then that, that ended because there were some tech challenges needed to be resolved.

But Very have a great opportunity there.

Right.

Very in the UK is more known for its brands than its own brand, whereas Next is probably more known for its own brand labels rather than its branded label.

So there's a key difference between those two retailers.

What that allows you to do as a brand is give you real point difference and create different destinations from an assortment point of view.

So you're connecting with slightly different consumers.

Next.

The business with Next really is always there to support the wholesale model and really kind of showcase depth and range extension to try and grow a total business.

Very's model was, was really similar, but what we found with Very was more around expanding our brand footprint, if you like.

It's really about putting our brands where potentially they wouldn't have been.

Because Very is probably more of a fashion led retailer than a sports led retailer.

And some of our, some of our brands were more sports than fashion.

So I think those are two really key retailers in the uk.

Then I think you've also got to look at the likes of Debenhams, who are just completely changing their model and move to the Debenhams group, start looking at full marketplace program for brands.

Now.

I think that's, that's a great way of getting your brand in front of again, a slightly different consumer demographic.

And Debenham's approach to it is that they make it really easy for you to integrate.

Okay.

It's really simple.

You can be on boarded within two weeks, whereas some of the others you were talking months to get on boarded.

So there's a, there's a slight kind of benefit of doing that.

And as you look at kind of John Lewis, which would be more of a fashion retailer for us rather than a sports retailer, it's more around the model.

There was some complexities around the model with John Lewis and it's not always easy to connect with because it's outside of the normal mainstream pathways that you would normally kind of connect through.

But what it does is it puts you again in front of a different type of consumer, a more premium, more affluent consumer, and just gives you the opportunity as a brand to extend your reach within, within that area.

Okay.

And in terms of like more luxury, is Farfetch'd really a thing as a marketplace business?

Because I would say Farfetch in the UK for marketplace is really relevant for more luxury brands.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It would be seen as kind of more of a, more of a luxury brand.

The brands I worked with and for are probably More of mainstream.

So Farfetch wasn't on our roadmap but you can see the benefit of doing that because again it's that the whole purpose of a marketplace for me is how can it add value to your consumer base, how can it get you in front of new consumers?

And you need to have the brand and the assortment to be able to do that.

Of course.

But yeah, Farfetch is absolutely a great model to work towards, I think.

And speaking about fashion, so we also, we have this specialized marketplace quadrant in front of us.

I know, not in front of you.

But speaking about sports, we see on this quadrant also in terms of like sports decathlon, we see Alteryx JD Trade in as like I would say sports only.

We also see sport deal here or private sports shop which is more on a discounted level I would say and off price.

But what are like the really relevant marketplaces for sports fashion products?

Yeah, it's really interesting.

We always looked at it in terms of what is the role of the marketplace that we're actually trying to onboard with.

So is it to gain a new consumer?

Is it to put your brand in somewhere where it isn't test and learn to build a wholesale relationship?

We also looked at this kind of top down to from premium to be as premium as we could be with the brands we have all the way through to how are we going to clear our stock at the end of the season.

Right.

So we had everything from ASOS next very and all the way through to ebay.

Right.

Which we use as a clearance channel.

Amazon then just underpins all of that.

Right.

Amazon is, is kind of what it is and I think there's a, there's a fashion element to that.

But it's certainly, it's a certain type of assortment, certain type of consumer that actually needs to be part of that.

So I think when you're building your marketplace program you really have to look at like why am I, why am I joining this marketplace?

Is it just commercial, is it just transactional?

Or is it to my, my earlier point trying to build brand equity and trying to really elevate the proposition and the position of your brands.

Yeah, I'd like to go a little bit into the newer competitors like TikTok Shop or Shane and get your opinions on that.

But first let's have another quick break because I wanted to give you a little teaser on our episode 131 which is due in two weeks time.

And that one features as a guest Jan Utterod, head of support of the tech company Textu and Text2 helps retailers and brands with a comprehensive platform to perform VAT returns and accounting processes in a legally compliant and efficient manner.

And this, this important part of your marketplace business is also being taken over as other areas as well by AI.

And this is what we'll discuss the opportunities and challenges of AI in tax matters.

Let's see what Jan is going to say about that.

For example, we will discuss how AI can help speed up tax processes and reduce costs, and of course, how AI can support you, for example, in correctly declaring VAT depending on the country and product.

And you will want to know that, because deficiencies in the processing of customs and VAT payments can quickly get you in serious trouble.

And that's you in trouble, not the AI.

So tune in in two weeks and you'll be sure to learn something new.

Yeah, let's go back to what I said before about some new players in the market.

We hear a lot about TikTok shop, for example, as the game changer in the UK marketplace business.

Is that true for fashion as well?

And we joined it because we saw it as an opportunity to really connect very, very quickly with consumers.

And its power lies in really kind of minimizing the consumer journey from search all the way through to purchase.

And it allows you to capitalize on trends really, really quickly and be really reactive to what a consumer wants and when they actually want it.

And then it becomes less about having real structured catalogs, structured assortments, and becomes more around the experience of shopping with your brand.

And what does that mean now?

One of the biggest challenges we had with TikTok was around content and content creation.

The volume of content needed just to keep a shop live and keep shop relevant is phenomenal.

We use the expertise of an agency to be able to manage that.

And that works, right?

If you're getting users to generate their own content, refresh their own content, reuse content, which, you know, works at various different points in time, that then becomes a really, really commercial model.

However, it's a little bit kind of like an Amazon model in getting the flywheel to start turning.

There's a lot of investment needed up front to be able to make that wheel turn, to be able to drive the, the kind of the, the traffic and therefore the conversion off, off the back of that.

There are some challenges in launching with TikTok.

I think the speed at which TikTok are onboarding brands means that the, the stability of the connections aren't always there which in turn then impacts your shop health and therefore you have to reinvest again to kind of get the flywheel turning again.

I think once those issues are resolved and I think once brands understand that they need to act more like content creators than brands, TikTok shop will be, will be massive and the social commerce area will, will just keep, keep going.

The, the, the key to this though is the assortment, right?

What we learned very, very quickly is that it's really promo led and it has to be a deal, it has to be an offer and it has to be kind of lower price point items which means you're driving volume rather than driving kind of margin and top line sales.

So I think as long as you go into it with your eyes open that you may struggle to sell 400 pound 500 jackets but you may sell lots and lots and lots of 25 pound T shirts.

I think as long as you go into with your eyes open, then it becomes a really relevant platform from which to connect with consumers, be relevant with consumers, but also start to commercialize that relationship a lot more.

I also need a lot of like different kind of content compared to usual marketplace content.

Right.

I mean I think that's, that's one of the challenges.

But speaking about other new marketplace channels and talking about TEMU and Shein, how relevant are these ones for the fashion and marketplace business in the uk?

I think they're becoming more and more relevant.

I think there's obviously a big push from both areas to try and onboard brands as quickly as possible.

I think both of them are open marketplaces so you can see your brand on a marketplace like TEMU or Shein when you haven't necessarily sold that product or you don't control that product.

That becomes a bit of a challenge when you're trying to manage brand equity and manage the perception of your brand.

So I think they become relevant when that can be controlled a little bit more and can be focused a little bit more around the brand and the power of a brand rather than just having lots of, lots of choice on there.

Because then it just becomes a race to the bottom on price.

And from a brand point of view, that's not what anyone really wants to kind of manage with.

You want your brands to be premium and profitable at the same time and the volume of consumers on there is the attraction.

But the models at the moment are probably a little bit just too open for a lot of brands to connect with.

And if we speaking about price and promotions.

We should also talk about off price marketplaces in the uk.

We have here our list, we have secret sales, sport deal, we have private sports shop brand, Le Club fashion.

What would you say here are the really relevant ones in the UK in terms of like off price sales?

The main one for us is ebay.

We use ebay as an offer price model and we use that just as our clearance channel to be able to kind of push product through.

Secret sales is the other big one from a sports and fashion point of view, high end, kind of high price point fashion and sports rather than low kind of entry level product assortments.

So again, both of those platforms will give you access to a slightly different consumer as well.

Right.

If you're trying to liquidate and trying to move product through, through your pipeline.

So yeah, from my point of view, secret sales and ebay would be the two to, to really kind of focus on.

And speaking about sports.

Again, how relevant is Decathlon in the uk?

Decathlon is a, is a huge, huge opportunity.

I think.

Decathlon is a, as a sports retailer in the UK is growing, it's growing bricks and mortar wise, but it's also growing online.

And it's growing online because of their marketplace.

We joined the Decathlon marketplace probably two and a half years ago now and I've seen this grow significantly year on year on year.

The biggest unlock for us is Europe for Decathlon.

And the reason we joined Decathlon in the UK in the first place was to iron out any challenges or any issues in onboarding and integration and process.

Basically, and then to expand, to further expand from there.

Right.

The expansion piece needs to take into account Brexit, of course, and, and how do you get product into Europe, which is a challenge for everybody.

But from a UK point of view, the Decathlon marketplace for us continues to grow much like the, the, the Sheens and the Teemus of the world.

They're, they're an open marketplace so they just allow any retailer or any person, any company, to, to retail your brand.

So you just need to be aware of that.

How we try and manage that is just through assortment.

Right.

We will put a specific type of assortment and try and keep it as differentiated as we possibly can from, from other areas of that business.

By doing that, you can create destinations and kind of drive demand through the consumer.

Right.

But yeah, Decathlon is a real big sports focus for us and certainly one that would give you huge opportunity if you were to expand outside of the UK as well.

Yeah.

And if I think about all the talks we had Between Europe and Brexit reasons and UK and how to do marketplace business across.

Etc.

Two main topics always pop up is logistics, as you already mentioned.

Mentioned it, and also the tax topic.

Right.

So we also had a talk this week with another marketplace other category, but they were like, yeah, we want to definitely have more German sellers on our UK platform.

And.

And we think like, yeah, that's quite interesting.

And they were like, yeah, but they now need, they first of all need a UK entity.

And then we were like the UK VAT number and VAT number and then.

And then it's like, there's so often so big hurdles to really enter the market.

So that was one main topic and I think you can solve this, but you really need to properly decide, okay, let's expand from Germany to UK and let's do this properly.

Because sometimes I go for this, like, yeah, go for it, test it.

Right.

This is what I, for example, recommended in the past is like, hey, you're already online Zalando.

You can also try Zalando UK and see how it works there.

But what I learned from our session was like, Zalando UK is really not that relevant.

And then the numbers you want to learn with or learn from, they are not big enough.

And then you can easily come to the assumption, yeah, UK business is not worth it, but it might be.

Right, so what my overall conclusion after our session was that we assume in Central Europe we know how the UK marketplace business is running and which are the ones who are really relevant.

Then oops, oh, oh, I moved like my microphone was gone.

And then we are talking to UK people and then we're like, maybe we should have a, like a more deep dive talk because we assumed wrong.

That might also be the reason why.

Because what we also heard several times is that European brands starting in the UK and then not being too happy with their experience because things are not working that easily or not working out well, and everyone goes like, yeah, but this is the biggest market, it's in Europe, so shouldn't we make lots of turnover and they don't because they go for the wrong platforms or don't really have their.

I don't know, don't know how to address the, the UK consumer or whatever.

So things are difficult.

But I'd like to return to what you said, Valerie, about the idea of using Zalando as a tryout zone, which is not really working.

What about Amazon then?

Because I know Amazon for fashion is always one of those topics, but still, I mean, it's, it's A very big marketplace and they are one of the very little marketplaces who have this Brexit problem at least halfway sorted out.

So is Amazon a good tryout zone?

Yes and no.

Right.

I think in terms of logistics, absolutely.

Because there will be a solution from Amazon that can help you fulfill quickly and relatively cheaply wherever you need to kind of launch.

I think the challenge currently with Amazon as a fashion retailer is that it's not a real fashion destination for like an aspirational consumer, but it's, it's logistics that really allow it to be that.

At the moment, if you look at assortments based on Amazon, they tend to be kind of entry level, value driven, really price led.

That's why people go to Amazon.

Right.

Because they get the best deal.

Right.

And I think for brands it's a real challenge in maintaining identity and price perception in an area whereby it's driven by convenience and it's driven by algorithms and not really driven by brand equity is probably the biggest challenge with Amazon.

I've worked with brands who decided was part of the strategy to work with Amazon and some brands who've decided to not work with Amazon.

Right.

I think either way though, anyone involved in a marketplace program needs to really understand Amazon needs to understand how it works, what it can do and, and how it'll benefit you and your brand.

Because the right decision might be not to go on Amazon.

Even though it offers logistical kind of supply chain ease, it doesn't always add to brand equity.

Is the biggest challenge on me and.

I think this is like an Amazon overall issue for years and years and years.

I mean I worked for Amazon fashion like almost 10 years, 12, eight years ago.

And back then Amazon always wanted to be the fashion player and they always tried it and pushed and pushed and invested tons of money to be more relevant in the fashion business.

But still big luxury brands are not there yet.

I think they will never be there or just occasionally or with like a small assortment which is maybe the entry assortment etc.

But I think still for fashion brands and sports brands who are more on this entry to mid price level, I think Amazon is really still a good option especially for the ones who have like a big nos.

Assortment.

So ones with basics, underwear, kids products, I think that's quite, quite relevant still.

But the, the higher the, the, the brand is positioned, the less it's, they are eager to start on Amazon or to sell on Amazon.

Yeah, yeah, completely agree, I think, yeah.

When I worked at Nike it was always Amazon, we're not going on Amazon.

It's not part of what, what the strategy is.

It's not part of what we want to try and do.

If you look at Nike recently, it's gone on Amazon because it has to start buying back some market share, right.

And it's start, got to start getting its product out there now it's done.

It was a really tight small assortment in certain territories but they're doing it for a reason.

They're not doing it to build brand equity, they're doing it to gain some revenue back into their business.

So and in the end every brand is, or almost every brand is already sold on Amazon due to gray market, other retailers, etc.

So yeah, yeah, well the same thing.

Might be true at the moment for Timo and Shane to turn the topic back there and brands will need to find a way to deal with those as well.

Just as they did with Amazon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe as the last question.

Neil, let's have a look out into the future.

At the moment what I find interesting in the UK market is this is the start of all these classical retailers like very like Next, like John Lewis, like Debenhams.

Also Marks and Spencer's is also going for the marketplace direction.

So there's a lot of movement at the moment in the marketplace landscape in the uk.

What do you think of all these sort of, I don't know, copy and paste miracle marketplaces that are erupting everywhere in the UK at the moment?

Is there one, one that you look to and say okay, this is going to be the leader in the future or is that that's still completely open?

I still think it's open.

I think it's all dependent on brand.

I think it's all dependent on the consumer you want to try and hit.

What I do think though is that the reason why more retailers are starting to turn to marketplace is because the stock risk is because it takes risk away from their business and a lot of retailers are trying to de risk in.

In these pretty kind of uncertain economic times.

However, brands need to continue to put their brand in front of people.

Right.

So I think that it's an ideal meeting of the waves whereby a retailer can still show choice and options and depth with a product and a brand can also drive some revenue through that as well.

So I think it's all pretty, I don't think there's any one that really stands out at the moment.

I think if we look further into the future, I think you know, around social commerce is going to be just continue to grow because that's Ultimately how the younger consumers of today are shopping and want to shop and want to engage with brands.

I think AI obviously becomes a huge part of that in terms of personalization of offer, in terms of data and setup, in terms of product and just delivery.

And then I think also retail media.

Retail media is going to be a huge part of marketplaces now.

It becomes less about brand led once a season stories and more around kind of always on 365 retail media that really kind of keeps a brand relevant on a marketplace.

That's how I see this kind of moving forward.

Absolutely right, Neil.

I think we'll close it here for now.

Might return to that at a later point.

But for now, thank you very much for insight.

That was really interesting.

Great.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much, Neil.

It was really great to have you on the show.

And as I always say, the best insights come from talking to your community, your peers or by listening to our podcast, of course.

So make sure to follow us and write us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or wherever you are listening to us.

And of course by tuning in again next time.

Yep.

So for now, thanks for listening.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

You listened to let's Talk Marketplace, the.

Marketplace podcast with Ingrid Lommer and Valerie Dichtel.